David Chipperfield Stirling interview

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Just minutes after the Chipperfield team learned that they had won the Stirling Prize, Max Thompson interviewed a jaunty David Chipperfield and the Museum of Modern Literature project architect ­ the tall, ponytailed Alexander Schwarz. Chipperfield was clutching the foot-long metallic rectangular box that is the Stirling Prize and the pair were not impressed by it...

The trophy ...?

Chipperfield: It is not tectonic enough.

Schwarz: It should have the capacity to age with dignity. Well, at least the names are great.

Do you have a favourite past winner?

Chipperfield: I think Laban is the best one. But, I'm not a great fan of Wilkinson (Eyre) because there is a certain type of English architecture which is little bit expedient.

What was your client's (The German Archive of Literature) brief?

Chipperfield: The client is a very respected institute and well known among academics and researchers, but it is not well known amongst the general public and this building was an attempt to build a bridge between the public and the work of the institute.

The exhibits [which include Kafka's original manuscript for The Trial] are not very easy to show. They are pieces of processes that are not designed to be looked at.

The building has been described as Fascist

Chipperfield: There is not a link with Fascism, there is a strong link with Classical architecture. Simplistically, in Germany the Classical tradition was hijacked by Nazis and so there was a period, very prevalent in south Germany, where architecture in Germany had to look much more informal and casual.

I think the one thing we have done in Germany that has been picked up is a legitimisation of a modern Classicism and from our point of view we are interested in the abstract qualities of Classical architecture.

The column is a Classical measure of man.

Schwarz: But somehow it is not even columns, it is sticks that allow voids next to them. It is the sticks and the gaps.

Chipperfield: On the one hand this is really modern, and on the other we recognise that there is a certain tectonic clarity.

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Why do you think you won?

Chipperfield: Someone told me that they went to see Rem Koolhaas and Rem asked him what his favourite building was. When he said Marbach, Rem was quite shocked ­ because there is only one architect in the world! ­ and asked him why. The guy said because of atmosphere and it is a very human building'. This is really our agenda, a sort of humanist architecture.

I have a feeling there is an agenda here. The jury is saying 'I know there are sexy buildings but this has a material and experiential and atmospheric quality which is difficult to put in a photo and encapsulate, but it is there'.

Now, if that is the case, if that is what the jury said, then I am turning from an English architectural pessimist to an optimist, because that is what we have been saying for 20 years: Make quiet, well done, clear building and let physicality and atmosphere become convincing.

Is this your best building?

Schwarz: The best is his private house.

Chipperfield: How do you choose? We are not running the 100m sprint. The only thing you can do is to give criteria; describe what you want to promote.

I think it is interesting that the two projects [the America's Cup Building in Valencia, and Marbach] that formally seemed quiet different are in fact spiritually very similar.

In Marbach, the idea of courtyards, terraces and colonnades are replicated in Valencia with its terraces, balconies and the ramps.

The theme is the same but the language is different. One is a nautical language and one is more Germanic, Classical.

Also, with Valencia you have a building that is much more photogenic but actually materially was a bit weak. With Marbach you have one that is less photogenic but materially very present.

Marbach is not a sexy building, it is very understated and maybe I didn't have enough confidence to believe that a predominantly Anglo Saxon jury would be impressed by quiet physicality.

Perhaps I was underestimating the English ability to appreciate good architecture. I think Valencia is the people's choice. When you see it on the TV you think oh, this should win.

But this is our belief ­ the physical wins.

What do you take from this award?

Chipperfield: I take this award tonight as a sort of promotion of us and what we represent.

Do you now feel accepted ­ are you in from the cold?

Chipperfield: There are still no real competitions in England. We are not building houses, we are a commercial culture.

Germany, Spain and France, and even Italy in its ridiculously inefficient manner, have the remnants of a public system that feels it is responsible for things that sit in the public realm, We are a hard, cold commercial culture.

That deregulation has produced an enormous energy and financial wealth, but it hasn't guaranteed a collective culture and responsibility.

What we have is a lot of rich people building a lot of things in great enthusiasm and it is difficult to criticise as the rest of world is saying wow! London is amazing'. But is it good for built environment? No. it is not. Is it good to build monuments to Mammon?

One of the big problems in architecture is to persuade people that small things matter. I am not anti-English project managers, but project management is a shared responsibility. It is not about a person, it is a process.

In England we have given up responsibility and project managers are now the guardians of projects.

It is very difficult to fight for the subtle things, to say we want to do this ­ maybe it is a little more expensive, but we will solve it in another way. In Marbach we were not one euro over budget.

The pathetic thing in this country is that developers dictate that an office like mine does not get work here, because we are not responsible, because we do not work in the private sector.

In Marbach there was a situation where we had a conspiracy between client, architect and the professional team that somehow held together. Yes it is bloody, and there are moments of doubt and times where the client is nervous.

Can we go back to the party now?

Of course, but first; if you could have a dinner party with any three architects who would you invite?

Schwarz: Louis Kahn

Chipperfield: What, dead ones?

Schwarz: Dead ones is easier.

Chipperfield: Yes, Louis Kahn.

Schwarz: Mies Van der Rohe.

Chipperfield: It depends, are you looking for a good dinner? I'm not sure, but Mies would not be great fun at a dinner.

Schwarz: I think Schinkel [Karl Friedrich] is a nice person

Chipperfield: And on a night like this you should invite Stirling, he would have been great fun. So, we'll have those three and Stirling. I've been to dinner with him and he was great fun.